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	<title>Comments for The Awe of Understanding</title>
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	<link>http://aweofunderstanding.com/rantsandrambles</link>
	<description>The infrequent thoughts of a libertarian, skeptic, and humanist</description>
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		<title>Comment on &#8220;Math is hard, let&#8217;s go shopping.&#8221; by Lewis Pulsipher</title>
		<link>http://aweofunderstanding.com/rantsandrambles/2011/math-is-hard-lets-go-shopping/comment-page-1/#comment-3344</link>
		<dc:creator>Lewis Pulsipher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Oct 2011 16:35:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://aweofunderstanding.com/rantsandrambles/?p=459#comment-3344</guid>
		<description>I ran across this only today.  I&#039;ll repeat what I said originally when someone wrote &quot;ALL games are math&quot;:

Games are all about people, reading people, persuading people, misleading people, and so forth. Puzzles are often about math. (Single-player video games are interactive puzzles, not games.)

In the millennial generation the proportion who like math is very small. This is one reason why STEM education (Science, Technology, Engineering, Math) is at a crisis for lack of students. I don&#039;t see that many people play games because they like math.

The object of the designer of hobby games is to have people enjoy the games. If players are easily frustrated by something, it may be necessary to take it out of the game. Arithmetic clearly frustrates most young people. Ergo, take it out of the game unless it&#039;s more important than the frustration it causes.

The general guideline might be: only allow arithmetic in a game when the inclusion is worth more than the damage it may cause.

Is a game designer in a contest to persuade people to do things they don&#039;t enjoy? Not only no, but Heck no! I&#039;ve been a college teacher for most of the past 10 years, and I see people coming out of K12 who have been trained to answer multiple choice questions on end of class tests, but haven&#039;t been educated to think. There&#039;s only so much I can do in an entire semester to really help such folks, it usually takes much longer. What am I, as a game designer, going to do for people who haven&#039;t learned arithmetic decently (have been failed by the education system, perhaps)? The idea that I ought to sort them out via a commercial game is ridiculous. If you want to try to devise educational games (as opposed to entertainment) for such purposes, go ahead, being aware that it&#039;s very hard to get people to play an educational game unless it&#039;s primarily an entertaining game.

Sooner or later I&#039;ll finish a piece about frustration in games. Frustration as part of the gameplay can be part of games (though it is becoming less acceptable).  But frustration with the mechanical processes of playing the game (such as doing calculations) is part of the interface, not of the gameplay.  Anyone who includes frustration as part of the interface should be in modern entertainment games is not in touch with 21st century reality.

If you think &quot;this guy’s article is bullshit,&quot; that&#039;s your privilege in a free country.  Many people seem to follow a very narrow, personal point of view about game preferences, as though they are absolutely typical (which of course they rarely are).   And they judge everything through this egotistical personal lens.   Game designers must deal with large groups of people and their preferences.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I ran across this only today.  I&#8217;ll repeat what I said originally when someone wrote &#8220;ALL games are math&#8221;:</p>
<p>Games are all about people, reading people, persuading people, misleading people, and so forth. Puzzles are often about math. (Single-player video games are interactive puzzles, not games.)</p>
<p>In the millennial generation the proportion who like math is very small. This is one reason why STEM education (Science, Technology, Engineering, Math) is at a crisis for lack of students. I don&#8217;t see that many people play games because they like math.</p>
<p>The object of the designer of hobby games is to have people enjoy the games. If players are easily frustrated by something, it may be necessary to take it out of the game. Arithmetic clearly frustrates most young people. Ergo, take it out of the game unless it&#8217;s more important than the frustration it causes.</p>
<p>The general guideline might be: only allow arithmetic in a game when the inclusion is worth more than the damage it may cause.</p>
<p>Is a game designer in a contest to persuade people to do things they don&#8217;t enjoy? Not only no, but Heck no! I&#8217;ve been a college teacher for most of the past 10 years, and I see people coming out of K12 who have been trained to answer multiple choice questions on end of class tests, but haven&#8217;t been educated to think. There&#8217;s only so much I can do in an entire semester to really help such folks, it usually takes much longer. What am I, as a game designer, going to do for people who haven&#8217;t learned arithmetic decently (have been failed by the education system, perhaps)? The idea that I ought to sort them out via a commercial game is ridiculous. If you want to try to devise educational games (as opposed to entertainment) for such purposes, go ahead, being aware that it&#8217;s very hard to get people to play an educational game unless it&#8217;s primarily an entertaining game.</p>
<p>Sooner or later I&#8217;ll finish a piece about frustration in games. Frustration as part of the gameplay can be part of games (though it is becoming less acceptable).  But frustration with the mechanical processes of playing the game (such as doing calculations) is part of the interface, not of the gameplay.  Anyone who includes frustration as part of the interface should be in modern entertainment games is not in touch with 21st century reality.</p>
<p>If you think &#8220;this guy’s article is bullshit,&#8221; that&#8217;s your privilege in a free country.  Many people seem to follow a very narrow, personal point of view about game preferences, as though they are absolutely typical (which of course they rarely are).   And they judge everything through this egotistical personal lens.   Game designers must deal with large groups of people and their preferences.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Hey!  Remember me? by Dave</title>
		<link>http://aweofunderstanding.com/rantsandrambles/2011/hey-remember-me/comment-page-1/#comment-3341</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Oct 2011 19:25:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://aweofunderstanding.com/rantsandrambles/?p=552#comment-3341</guid>
		<description>Forget the blog....I barely remember what you (and the rest of the gang) look like! I haven&#039;t played a game in what feels like forever. This is a situation that needs to be remedied, and soon.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Forget the blog&#8230;.I barely remember what you (and the rest of the gang) look like! I haven&#8217;t played a game in what feels like forever. This is a situation that needs to be remedied, and soon.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Things I think about by Cindy</title>
		<link>http://aweofunderstanding.com/rantsandrambles/2011/things-i-think-about/comment-page-1/#comment-3330</link>
		<dc:creator>Cindy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Sep 2011 00:46:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://aweofunderstanding.com/rantsandrambles/?p=543#comment-3330</guid>
		<description>Belton and I have batted around the idea that the days of football as we know it, and thus recognizable as  American Football, may be limited.  We both love football - well, he loves it, I LOVE it, yet we both abhor the damage it undeniably does to the human body.  Second only to boxing, or is Rugby worse?  Will the game just change, or go away completely?  HOw long will it take?  I fear too long.

I think there is something in the human psyche that revels in violence.  Throughout history humans have invented &quot;entertainment&quot; centered around physically damaging another human being.  I am beginning to agree with Belton that aggression is one of those things hard wired into our being.  However, that doesn&#039;t mean we have to let those instincts rule.

Also, please, please, please let Texas join the ACC.  If they do, I can actually go to some games!!!!!

Let these comments stand testimony to my desire to have more back and forth conversation.  I would love something that let&#039;s me know when people comment on a thread (like facebook) instead of having to go back and check each thread.  I had that dissatisfaction with the game meme.  30 posts was a lot to go back and keep checking.  I don&#039;t have the sit in front of a computer time that some people (Belton) do.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Belton and I have batted around the idea that the days of football as we know it, and thus recognizable as  American Football, may be limited.  We both love football &#8211; well, he loves it, I LOVE it, yet we both abhor the damage it undeniably does to the human body.  Second only to boxing, or is Rugby worse?  Will the game just change, or go away completely?  HOw long will it take?  I fear too long.</p>
<p>I think there is something in the human psyche that revels in violence.  Throughout history humans have invented &#8220;entertainment&#8221; centered around physically damaging another human being.  I am beginning to agree with Belton that aggression is one of those things hard wired into our being.  However, that doesn&#8217;t mean we have to let those instincts rule.</p>
<p>Also, please, please, please let Texas join the ACC.  If they do, I can actually go to some games!!!!!</p>
<p>Let these comments stand testimony to my desire to have more back and forth conversation.  I would love something that let&#8217;s me know when people comment on a thread (like facebook) instead of having to go back and check each thread.  I had that dissatisfaction with the game meme.  30 posts was a lot to go back and keep checking.  I don&#8217;t have the sit in front of a computer time that some people (Belton) do.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Things I think about by JimPAX</title>
		<link>http://aweofunderstanding.com/rantsandrambles/2011/things-i-think-about/comment-page-1/#comment-3324</link>
		<dc:creator>JimPAX</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Sep 2011 15:00:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://aweofunderstanding.com/rantsandrambles/?p=543#comment-3324</guid>
		<description>Those are indeed frequently cited as reasons to assign homework. I am in the process of going back to find the research I read a couple of years ago, since Valerie and I want to make this topic a segment in the podcast, but I remember there is a study that suggests that it doesn&#039;t succeed in teaching these things. Kids who are prone to being organized figure it out, but those who aren&#039;t flounder, with the added punishment of failing in an academic sense as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Those are indeed frequently cited as reasons to assign homework. I am in the process of going back to find the research I read a couple of years ago, since Valerie and I want to make this topic a segment in the podcast, but I remember there is a study that suggests that it doesn&#8217;t succeed in teaching these things. Kids who are prone to being organized figure it out, but those who aren&#8217;t flounder, with the added punishment of failing in an academic sense as well.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Things I think about by Tall Mike</title>
		<link>http://aweofunderstanding.com/rantsandrambles/2011/things-i-think-about/comment-page-1/#comment-3323</link>
		<dc:creator>Tall Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Sep 2011 14:33:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://aweofunderstanding.com/rantsandrambles/?p=543#comment-3323</guid>
		<description>On Homework - What if the goal is to teach organization, and self-motivation?  Sometimes you just have to get stuff done, with minimal supervision, and mostly on your own.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On Homework &#8211; What if the goal is to teach organization, and self-motivation?  Sometimes you just have to get stuff done, with minimal supervision, and mostly on your own.</p>
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